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    Ouran High School Host Club has a cgl relationship!

    anime cgl little caregiver

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    #1 spaceprincess_

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 04:16 AM

    Mfw I realised that Hunny-senpai is essentially a little and Mori-senpai is his caregiver

     

    b03045daf93759653827c3bc7fbed62a.jpg

     

    I mean

     tumblr_n1p0uyzXve1svv0fgo1_500.gif

     

    Seriously

    1254340718400_f.jpg

     

    HOW 

    tumblr_mip9786c1n1r3ifxzo1_500.gif

     

    DID I NOT NOTICE THIS

    original.gif

     

    Has anyone else ever looked back at something they've loved for years before they knew they were a little, and realised that some of their favourite relationships had the cgl dynamic?  :p

     


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    #2 Melodia

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:27 AM

    Ooooohh now I have to watch this. *skips away flapping hands and squealing*

    #3 Guest_Moonpie_*

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:52 AM

    Ohmygosh yes!! I need to start watching animus again..This was one of my faves!

    #4 Guest_ZenDD_*

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 11:11 AM

    I find it odd that this is something that continually needs to be reiterated on this forum, but it's indicative of many of the problems within the DDlg/CGl community and its stigma outside of it:

     

    Doms/Caregivers and littles, are all ADULTS. Being a little is an adult psychology. This can be elaborated on if necessary, but the point to be made here is that these characters you've mentioned are both children. There can be no CGl dynamic between children. DDlg/CGl are subsets of D/s, which is a branch of BDSM, with is a sexual fetish perspective and lifestyle for adults. While not all DDlg/CGl relationships are sexual, the roots of this subculture is BDSM based and hence, not for or by children. 

     

    You would be mistaken to identify this relationship as CG/l, when it is actually an older child looking out for a younger child. NOT the same thing as CG/l at all. Anyone thinking this is the same thing is not researching or understanding what CG/l actually is, and is only looking at the surface of it. If one types ddlg into wikipedia, for example, it opens up to the page on Dominance and Submission.

     

    With all due respect, equating the child/child relationship above to CG/l is actually very inappropriate. You're mixing adult, sexual-dynamic-based themes and lifestyles with the relationship between children. People who adhere to CGl lifestyles need to stop making this dangerous correlation if for no other reason than to stop the attraction of minors to the CGl/DDlg world. This is a serious issue, and one i'm starting to feel really uneasy about on this forum, as it appears to be very common.

     

    I honestly respect everyone's interpretation of CGl, but mixing its concepts with actual depictions of children, or not being more adamant about this being a lifestyle for adults, is troubling. I understand that the example from "Ouran High School Host Club" posted above has been put here with no ill intent, but the fact that this is about high school children should be a clear indication that this is not to be a representation of CGl in pop culture. Liking things generally made for children is fine for adults, but to say that these things have CGl concepts within them is inaccurate and inappropriate.


    Edited by ZenDD, 21 September 2016 - 05:22 PM.

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    #5 Guest_~*QueenSaiya*~_*

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 11:46 AM

    Omg no joke one of the other mods and I were discussing this like two or three weeks ago!! Lol I'm so glad we're not the only ones to notice!!
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    #6 Lillin

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 12:36 PM

    I find it odd that this is something that continually needs to be reiterated on this forum, but it's indicative of many of the problems within the DDlg/CGl community and its stigma outside of it:

     

    Doms/Caregivers and littles, are all ADULTS. Being a little is an adult psychology. This can be elaborated on if necessary, but the point to be made here is that these characters you've mentioned are both children. There can be no CGl dynamic between children. DDlg/CGl are subsets of D/s, which is a branch of BDSM, with is a sexual fetish perspective and lifestyle for adults. While not all DDlg/CGl relationships are sexual, the roots of this subculture is BDSM based and hence, not for or by children. 

     

    You would be mistaken to identify this relationship as CG/l, when it is actually an older child looking out for a younger child. NOT the same thing as CG/l at all. Anyone thinking this is the same thing is not researching or understanding what CG/l actually is, and is only looking at the surface of it. If one types ddlg into wikipedia, for example, it opens up to the page on Dominance and Submission.

     

    With all due respect, equating the child/child relationship above to CG/l is actually very inappropriate. You're mixing adult, sexual dynamic-based themes and lifestyles with the relationship between children. People who adhere to CGl lifestyles need to stop making this dangerous correlation if for no other reason than to stop the attraction of minors to the CGl/DDlg world. This is a serious issue, and one i'm starting to feel really uneasy about on this forum, as it appears to be very common.

     

    I honestly respect everyone's interpretation of CGl, but mixing its concepts with actual depictions of children, or not being more adamant about this being a lifestyle for adults, is troubling. I understand that the example from "Ouran High School Host Club" posted above has been put here with no ill intent, but the fact that this is about high school children should be a clear indication that this is not to be a representative of CGl in pop culture. Liking things generally made for children is fine for adults, but to say that these things have CGl concepts within them is inaccurate and inappropriate.

     

    Well, to be fair, Its a japanese show. The legal age of adulthood in Japan is much younger than most other countries, so these characters could be considered adults.


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    #7 Guest_ZenDD_*

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 02:17 PM

    Well, to be fair, Its a japanese show. The legal age of adulthood in Japan is much younger than most other countries, so these characters could be considered adults.

     

    Understood, but not the point. Respectfully, that's a peripheral issue. Yes there are always exceptions, but we can't cater to the exceptions. For the sake of children's safety and society's understanding and respect towards the DDlg/CGl community, we can't split hairs within this debate. Anything that is considered grade school is generally associated with children, not adulthood. Even though certain states within the US, or other country's laws, may view age of consent differently, the bigger picture should be clear regarding DDlg and CGl. I believe that as a BDSM community, we need to draw the line clearly: nothing remotely close to depictions of children should be promoted in DDlg/CGl.


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    #8 raptorkitty

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 03:37 PM

    I personally feel like its a good "view" of DDlg's surface. Perhaps the ages are young. However, honey senpai is a 3 year in high school, which means that he'd be 17 turning 18. Where I'm from 18 is considered an adult. You can drink and gamble at the ages of 18. So I feel that looking into our kind of dynamic won't hurt anyone. 

     

    Anyways, like i was saying, i feel as though it gives an insight of DDlg/CGl, without the sexual part. For underaged littles (although most people do not think there should be but there are) its a good way to express the natural dynamic. Not all DDlg/CGl are sexual. 

     

    However, I've noticed that some DDlg/CGl aspects are turning main stream. Which i feel is watering down the serious "Boundries and communication" part of our dynamic.



    #9 Disneygoth

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 04:15 PM

    Actually those two characters are 17-18yr olds who graduate in the show. They are not children also as well there is really nothing wrong with it here. This is specifically a ddlg community website. Just because we fan girl/boy over characters we should be open to do it here in our safe online community.
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    #10 Guest_ZenDD_*

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:36 PM

    Nothing wrong with being a fan girl/boy, the issue is equating it to an adult lifestyle that is based in BDSM. There are many shows and movies that show non-familial relationships of mature characters who care for other less mature characters. That doesn't automatically make those depictions relatable to DDlg/CGl.

     

    There are many depictions of rape in Japanese animation, that doesn't mean we should promote it. Believe me I understand the consequences of censorship, but for those that don't know, DDlg is a lifestyle and a belief system that is scorned by much of society, and as it becomes more exposed legal authorities, for promoting pedophilia. As adherents, and adults, we need to make sure we protect our community from these claims and not do anything to provoke this judgement. I am a DDlg adult, having relationships with other adults, with no promotion of child involvement in person, in writing, or in artistic depiction. I'd like to think others here think the same. And thanks for taking part in the debate guys; i think it's great to discuss how DDlg/CGl relates to the rest of the world, because we shouldn't have to live in caves to be who we are. Thanks again, all.


    Edited by ZenDD, 21 September 2016 - 05:37 PM.


    #11 Guest_ZenDD_*

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:43 PM

    I personally feel like its a good "view" of DDlg's surface. Perhaps the ages are young. However, honey senpai is a 3 year in high school, which means that he'd be 17 turning 18. Where I'm from 18 is considered an adult. You can drink and gamble at the ages of 18. So I feel that looking into our kind of dynamic won't hurt anyone. 

     

    Anyways, like i was saying, i feel as though it gives an insight of DDlg/CGl, without the sexual part. For underaged littles (although most people do not think there should be but there are) its a good way to express the natural dynamic. Not all DDlg/CGl are sexual. 

     

    However, I've noticed that some DDlg/CGl aspects are turning main stream. Which i feel is watering down the serious "Boundries and communication" part of our dynamic.

     

    There actually are no underaged littles, only people who are underaged who believe they are littles. Big difference. But I see your points. I just believe we in the DDlg community should stay away from the fine line of age of consent and draw a clear distinction between child and adult. I understand that society works in gray zones, and that there is no real easy way to make that distinction, but as DDlg/CGl is watched closely because it is believed to condone pedophilia, I think we shouldn't flirt with the gray zones. Let society make those distinctions. As a scrutinized community, we should be clear, black and white on the issues of minors/underaged involvement or "perceived involvement" (because that's what it mostly is) in DDlg/CGl. Great points, though, thanks for the input.



    #12 Petal

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:06 PM

    I actually think about this a lot.

     

    Also Honey is older than Mori, and both are 18 in the manga.  The anime ended about halfway through the manga, though, so I think they are still on the tail end of 17.

     

    And I don't think they have a DDLG relationship or anything - they just have a dynamic that seems to parallel the idea of caregiving that a lot of DDLG themes revolve around.  And admittedly, that dynamic is taken from literal children and literal parents.  I mean, caregiving is a necessity in kids otherwise they die, right?  That's why it exists.  But there is no limitation set on it: why limit something like taking care of somebody?  You should take care of people your entire life, and people should take care of you.  That doesn't make you a child or a minor.  That makes you human.

     

    Yeah, we do childish things.  We act like parents and like kids sometimes.  We've taken a concept so integrally tied to society as an expression of "childhood", and we were smart enough to find the things that we lost growing up.  Inexplicable love, so different from marriage?  Letting someone else take care of us, so different from when we're sick?  Expressing ourselves freely, so different than a night of drinking?  Then we evolved those things into a sustainable, consenting, adult, formulated model, wrapped in a bow that people still read as "childhood".  But it's not childhood anymore - it's adulthood.  The day we turned 18 and we kept it, it went from childhood to adulthood, the same way we went from child to adult.  Because we kept our love for cartoons, for bright colors, for fluffy skirts, for happy endings, for coloring books, for simplicity, for arms around us, for laps to sit on, for simple food, for make believe, we're kids?  No.  And the men and women who love us for our ability to hold onto innocence and happy thoughts in a world that's frankly too fucking terrible, they're perverts?  No.  Just because we can find comfort in a baby bottle instead of a beer bottle, that doesn't make us children.  We found our way of coping with life.  We're not mimicking kids, we've learned from them.  We saw a happiness most people lose, a happiness we managed to get it back.  That doesn't make us kids.  That makes us geniuses.

     

    I understand distancing ourselves, dissociating DDLG, from children because we have to dumb it down for all the idiots out there who can't see the differences themselves.  And DDLG, CGL, BDSM, etc., is for adults.  But taking care of people isn't.  

     

    To digress, I think that's the dynamic the OP was talking about.  Mori takes care of Honey.  And as CGLs, we empathize with that, and we find strength in that, regardless of age.  Not that they are in any way related to our lifestyle, but that they can exemplify things that we can appreciate.  And honestly, I think that's sort of the point of liking anything.

     

    Blah... I don't know what came over me just then...

     

    Maybe I have some pent up aggression on the topic! o_o  Then again, what little doesn't?

     

    Sorry for turning a simple topic into something so complicated... in short, I love the show.

     

    <3 Petal


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    #13 ᗰikᗩitᗩkᑌ 𝔴𝔬𝔩𝔣 Groot

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    Posted 21 September 2016 - 11:36 PM

    I would agree, it does show something like a caregiver/little relationship, in a big brother little brother kind of way. I will disagree on Zen's asurtion that there are no '"underage little", to my understanding being little is just how some people are, by saying that no one underage can be little is akin to saying that once someone turns 18 they magically become little. It simply does not work that way. 


    <p>I don't intend to come off as rude or disrespectful so if I say something that sounds like it, please tell me and hopefully we can clear any misunderstanding up.

    #14 spaceprincess_

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 07:22 AM

    I find it odd that this is something that continually needs to be reiterated on this forum, but it's indicative of many of the problems within the DDlg/CGl community and its stigma outside of it:

     

    Doms/Caregivers and littles, are all ADULTS. Being a little is an adult psychology. This can be elaborated on if necessary, but the point to be made here is that these characters you've mentioned are both children. There can be no CGl dynamic between children. DDlg/CGl are subsets of D/s, which is a branch of BDSM, with is a sexual fetish perspective and lifestyle for adults. While not all DDlg/CGl relationships are sexual, the roots of this subculture is BDSM based and hence, not for or by children. 

     

    You would be mistaken to identify this relationship as CG/l, when it is actually an older child looking out for a younger child. NOT the same thing as CG/l at all. Anyone thinking this is the same thing is not researching or understanding what CG/l actually is, and is only looking at the surface of it. If one types ddlg into wikipedia, for example, it opens up to the page on Dominance and Submission.

     

    With all due respect, equating the child/child relationship above to CG/l is actually very inappropriate. You're mixing adult, sexual-dynamic-based themes and lifestyles with the relationship between children. People who adhere to CGl lifestyles need to stop making this dangerous correlation if for no other reason than to stop the attraction of minors to the CGl/DDlg world. This is a serious issue, and one i'm starting to feel really uneasy about on this forum, as it appears to be very common.

     

    I honestly respect everyone's interpretation of CGl, but mixing its concepts with actual depictions of children, or not being more adamant about this being a lifestyle for adults, is troubling. I understand that the example from "Ouran High School Host Club" posted above has been put here with no ill intent, but the fact that this is about high school children should be a clear indication that this is not to be a representation of CGl in pop culture. Liking things generally made for children is fine for adults, but to say that these things have CGl concepts within them is inaccurate and inappropriate.

     

    Hi, OP here. While I don't expect everyone to have an encyclopedic knowledge of anime characters and their ages, as I think multiple people in the comments have mentioned, a quick google search on these characters would reveal they are actually both 18 and therefore not only of legal adult age in the country of origin, but also in most others as well.

    You'll also notice I was clear to specify that they "essentially" have a cgl dynamic to their platonic relationship, with Hunny having a lot of characteristics of a little and Mori having a lot of the characteristics of a caregiver and them both finding fulfillment in that set-up. In the manga/anime it is explained that Hunny's family were very high-ranking socially for many generations and that Mori's family had been their loyal stewards/servants for most of that time, and that while the boys were technically cousins because the families had intermarried a few generations back, there still remained that element of loyalty and caretaking to their relationship. So immediately that gives a cultural context to the situation as well which further legitimizes it as a thing which is not in any way promoting any kind of sexual cgl/ddlg/ddlb/mdlg/mdlb/etc kind of relationship to minors.

     

    I'm nearly 30 myself and I understand the need to draw a line between adults and minors in this lifestyle/kink, and agree that generally speaking there needs to be an awareness of not involving minors in the sexual nature these relationships can sometimes have. But honestly, you'd be much better off picking your battles and focusing your energy where it'll actually do some good, and not get ranty when some people are just having fun and enjoying some cute, completely sfw and already disclaimer-ed interactions in an anime where the relevant characters are actually adults anyway.


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    #15 spaceprincess_

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 07:33 AM

    I actually think about this a lot.

     

    Also Honey is older than Mori, and both are 18 in the manga.  The anime ended about halfway through the manga, though, so I think they are still on the tail end of 17.

     

    And I don't think they have a DDLG relationship or anything - they just have a dynamic that seems to parallel the idea of caregiving that a lot of DDLG themes revolve around.  And admittedly, that dynamic is taken from literal children and literal parents.  I mean, caregiving is a necessity in kids otherwise they die, right?  That's why it exists.  But there is no limitation set on it: why limit something like taking care of somebody?  You should take care of people your entire life, and people should take care of you.  That doesn't make you a child or a minor.  That makes you human.

     

    Yeah, we do childish things.  We act like parents and like kids sometimes.  We've taken a concept so integrally tied to society as an expression of "childhood", and we were smart enough to find the things that we lost growing up.  Inexplicable love, so different from marriage?  Letting someone else take care of us, so different from when we're sick?  Expressing ourselves freely, so different than a night of drinking?  Then we evolved those things into a sustainable, consenting, adult, formulated model, wrapped in a bow that people still read as "childhood".  But it's not childhood anymore - it's adulthood.  The day we turned 18 and we kept it, it went from childhood to adulthood, the same way we went from child to adult.  Because we kept our love for cartoons, for bright colors, for fluffy skirts, for happy endings, for coloring books, for simplicity, for arms around us, for laps to sit on, for simple food, for make believe, we're kids?  No.  And the men and women who love us for our ability to hold onto innocence and happy thoughts in a world that's frankly too fucking terrible, they're perverts?  No.  Just because we can find comfort in a baby bottle instead of a beer bottle, that doesn't make us children.  We found our way of coping with life.  We're not mimicking kids, we've learned from them.  We saw a happiness most people lose, a happiness we managed to get it back.  That doesn't make us kids.  That makes us geniuses.

     

    I understand distancing ourselves, dissociating DDLG, from children because we have to dumb it down for all the idiots out there who can't see the differences themselves.  And DDLG, CGL, BDSM, etc., is for adults.  But taking care of people isn't.  

     

    To digress, I think that's the dynamic the OP was talking about.  Mori takes care of Honey.  And as CGLs, we empathize with that, and we find strength in that, regardless of age.  Not that they are in any way related to our lifestyle, but that they can exemplify things that we can appreciate.  And honestly, I think that's sort of the point of liking anything.

     

    Blah... I don't know what came over me just then...

     

    Maybe I have some pent up aggression on the topic! o_o  Then again, what little doesn't?

     

    Sorry for turning a simple topic into something so complicated... in short, I love the show.

     

    <3 Petal

    This, exactly this, a hundred times this ♥

     

    The magic of being a little is not having to give up that childish, innocent, enjoyment of life we all start out with but some lose, and enjoying being taken care of is something which is pretty universal and should be more commonplace. People are pressured to take on more than they can handle and not ask for help, and for me personally learning to accept that something I don't have to be strong and can rely on someone else to take care of me has been the most empowering thing.

     

    I really identify with Hunny, and I did even back in highschool long before I realised I was a little, because he's an intelligent, strong, responsible person (a crazy martial arts badass for the record) who'd do anything for his friends, but he could be all those things and still enjoy cake and bunnies and getting hugs and be sooky when he had to go to the dentist. Not only that, it didn't make him weak, it just made him Hunny. I think Hunny is a great role model for littles because he enjoys all the things we do, as well as having great relationships with his friends and a positive outlook on life.

    And no stranger on the internet gets to tell me how I feel or what values are important to me.


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    #16 Guest_ZenDD_*

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 09:50 AM

    Hi, OP here. While I don't expect everyone to have an encyclopedic knowledge of anime characters and their ages, as I think multiple people in the comments have mentioned, a quick google search on these characters would reveal they are actually both 18 and therefore not only of legal adult age in the country of origin, but also in most others as well.

    You'll also notice I was clear to specify that they "essentially" have a cgl dynamic to their platonic relationship, with Hunny having a lot of characteristics of a little and Mori having a lot of the characteristics of a caregiver and them both finding fulfillment in that set-up. In the manga/anime it is explained that Hunny's family were very high-ranking socially for many generations and that Mori's family had been their loyal stewards/servants for most of that time, and that while the boys were technically cousins because the families had intermarried a few generations back, there still remained that element of loyalty and caretaking to their relationship. So immediately that gives a cultural context to the situation as well which further legitimizes it as a thing which is not in any way promoting any kind of sexual cgl/ddlg/ddlb/mdlg/mdlb/etc kind of relationship to minors.

     

    I'm nearly 30 myself and I understand the need to draw a line between adults and minors in this lifestyle/kink, and agree that generally speaking there needs to be an awareness of not involving minors in the sexual nature these relationships can sometimes have. But honestly, you'd be much better off picking your battles and focusing your energy where it'll actually do some good, and not get ranty when some people are just having fun and enjoying some cute, completely sfw and already disclaimer-ed interactions in an anime where the relevant characters are actually adults anyway.

     

    I definitely pick and choose my battles, and i purposely picked this one because i think it's a major issue within our community: confusing age of consent or age of legality with appropriate interpretations of, depictions of, or participation in, the DDlg/CGl lifestyle/community. The age of these characters is actually irrelevant. What is relevant, is that this anime is clearly about high school (which in no part of the world is considered an institute of adult education), and therefore implies an environment that is primarily for minors. We are a highly scrutinized community accused of promoting pedophilia. At very least, we're often accused of not making delineations between adults and children, or being soft on the distinction. I believe we shouldn't feed that monster.

     

    We are on the internet, in a public forum. Signing in and saying we're 18 doesn't create a firewall from society-at-large. Like it or not, we are representatives of the BDSM/DDlg/CGl community, and i think it would behoove us to be very clear, and not just assume that everyone here (and yes, even the minors that will always be able to find their way here) understand our context. I'm not saying we should censor ourselves or lie, but i think we should all be aware and astute. Despite your opinion, I think my energy spent responding here is doing good because others have also taken part in the conversation, and put some thought into this. Just because you may not like my opinion doesn't make it invalid or useless.

     

    To just post something "cute" and "fun" without the acknowledgement that there are minors present who may not understand your 30-year-old context could be considered careless. BDSM/DDlg/CGl is a complex psychology, and to not acknowledge that psychology is an oversimplification of the concepts. This oversimplification is what specifically draws minors into this adult community. I understand that this forum is dominated (no pun intended) by littles who often use this place as a playground in which to relate to other littles. But I'm a Daddy Dom, and I participate differently here than littles do. Where a little sees play, a Daddy sees an opportunity for nurturing, learning, and growth. No one can tell me that something is merely "cute" and "fun." A Daddy Dom's job is to disect the psychological motivations, benefits, and repercussions of play and the interactions of the adult mind with what is "cute" and "fun."

     

    I'm not just responding in order to rain on your parade. Daddies don't just encourage tea parties and give hugs, we bring up serious issues, keep our eyes and ears open, guide, protect, and problem solve. Daddies should always view the bigger picture. We do that not because littles are incapable, but so that littles shouldn't always have to. But littles are adults, and so in the real world sometimes they do have to look around and take bigger notice of where they are and what they are doing. I hope as an adult little that you can understand my role and motivation. I appreciate the debate, thank you so much.


    Edited by ZenDD, 27 September 2016 - 09:52 AM.


    #17 ᗰikᗩitᗩkᑌ 𝔴𝔬𝔩𝔣 Groot

    ᗰikᗩitᗩkᑌ 𝔴𝔬𝔩𝔣 Groot

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 01:45 PM

    I definitely pick and choose my battles, and i purposely picked this one because i think it's a major issue within our community: confusing age of consent or age of legality with appropriate interpretations of, depictions of, or participation in, the DDlg/CGl lifestyle/community. The age of these characters is actually irrelevant. What is relevant, is that this anime is clearly about high school (which in no part of the world is considered an institute of adult education), and therefore implies an environment that is primarily for minors. We are a highly scrutinized community accused of promoting pedophilia. At very least, we're often accused of not making delineations between adults and children, or being soft on the distinction. I believe we shouldn't feed that monster.

     

    We are on the internet, in a public forum. Signing in and saying we're 18 doesn't create a firewall from society-at-large. Like it or not, we are representatives of the BDSM/DDlg/CGl community, and i think it would behoove us to be very clear, and not just assume that everyone here (and yes, even the minors that will always be able to find their way here) understand our context. I'm not saying we should censor ourselves or lie, but i think we should all be aware and astute. Despite your opinion, I think my energy spent responding here is doing good because others have also taken part in the conversation, and put some thought into this. Just because you may not like my opinion doesn't make it invalid or useless.

     

    To just post something "cute" and "fun" without the acknowledgement that there are minors present who may not understand your 30-year-old context could be considered careless. BDSM/DDlg/CGl is a complex psychology, and to not acknowledge that psychology is an oversimplification of the concepts. This oversimplification is what specifically draws minors into this adult community. I understand that this forum is dominated (no pun intended) by littles who often use this place as a playground in which to relate to other littles. But I'm a Daddy Dom, and I participate differently here than littles do. Where a little sees play, a Daddy sees an opportunity for nurturing, learning, and growth. No one can tell me that something is merely "cute" and "fun." A Daddy Dom's job is to disect the psychological motivations, benefits, and repercussions of play and the interactions of the adult mind with what is "cute" and "fun."

     

    I'm not just responding in order to rain on your parade. Daddies don't just encourage tea parties and give hugs, we bring up serious issues, keep our eyes and ears open, guide, protect, and problem solve. Daddies should always view the bigger picture. We do that not because littles are incapable, but so that littles shouldn't always have to. But littles are adults, and so in the real world sometimes they do have to look around and take bigger notice of where they are and what they are doing. I hope as an adult little that you can understand my role and motivation. I appreciate the debate, thank you so much.

    you make a fair point at needing to be mindful of our conduct and the view society has on DDLG but I think you have missed the point of the post because and I am assuming that you have never watched the anime. I have and when I think back on it, the relationship of Honey and Mori is a wonderful example of what the core of the dynamic between little and caregiver is about, one in which everything sexual has been removed. This would be something I could and would show my family when and if I ever decide to tell them that I am into DDLG. 

     

    DDLG can involve a sexual/kink or romantic related components but at the heart of it they don't have to be. 


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    #18 Guest_ZenDD_*

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 05:19 PM

    you make a fair point at needing to be mindful of our conduct and the view society has on DDLG but I think you have missed the point of the post because and I am assuming that you have never watched the anime. I have and when I think back on it, the relationship of Honey and Mori is a wonderful example of what the core of the dynamic between little and caregiver is about, one in which everything sexual has been removed. This would be something I could and would show my family when and if I ever decide to tell them that I am into DDLG. 

     

    DDLG can involve a sexual/kink or romantic related components but at the heart of it they don't have to be. 

     

    I think it's funny that people think I've missed the point. I understand the point. Two people. One is a caregiver. One is a little. It's a depiction in pop culture. Got it. 

     

    It's actually irrelevant whether i've seen it or not, and it's also irrelevant that there are two characters in pop culture that are not biological parent and child who fill caregiver/little roles. My point, is that because this anime is set in a high school context, which is NOT an adult context, regardless of the age of the characters/students in question, it can be easily misinterpreted by minors as well as critics of DDlg/CGl that we in this community do not pay attention to or delineate between children and adults. In this specific case, they would be correct. I, as a person of the DDlg community, don't feel comfortable with gray lines between children and adults with respect to DDlg/CGl. I also don't think responsible adherents of our lifestyle would either, because it sets a bad example of what our community is actually about, which is ADULT PSYCHOLOGY, manifested in archetypes of the Caregiver/ care receiver role within the context of BDSM. I understand there is no sex between these characters. Again, that is totally irrelevant.

     

    The only point that is being missed here is mine: that it is dangerous to speak of CGl concepts utilizing depictions of relationships from pop culture that are not obvious adult relationships. No underage relationships, real or easily presumed to be underage (such as two high school characters), should be used as paradigms of relationships within our ADULT community. The pervasive use of archetypes like this, as well as associating DDlg/CGl with the simple collecting and or admiration of toys and other "children's" products (these are tools for the psychology's manifestation, not the theme of the psychology), as opposed to associating DDlg/CGl with it's real roots, adult psychosexuality, is a detriment to the understanding of our complex lifestyle, and that it is not something for children/minors. Thanks for the debate and discussion.



    #19 Petal

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 06:42 PM

    ...but they /are/ paradigms within our adult community.

     

    Okay listen.  I get what you're saying.  DDLG is sexual, or stems from sexuality, and is an adult expression.  "Its real roots, adult psychosexuality", right?  And that even insinuating that minors can be a part of this exclusively adult idea is detrimental to the public opinion of DDLG.

     

    Which I agree with.  It's definitely detrimental.  And I think that your talk about being a Daddy as "thinking about this stuff so littles shouldn't have to" also makes a lot of sense.

     

    Now here's the problem:

     

    1.) It's admirable to stick up for the community, especially one so closely watched and often misunderstood.  It's admirable to ensure we aren't misinterpreted more than we need to be, and I love and appreciate your work on that.  But it's naive to say that this paradigm is ours and ours alone.  Sure it might not help us in the long run, but I think giving out "helpful misinformation" is probably worse than "unhelpful information".  The fact of the matter is, psychologically - speaking as a psychologist - not a whole lot changes between 17 years and 364 days old and 18 years old.  You don't magically get the ability to make rational, mature decisions overnight.  We don't limit our involvement with minors because the day you turn 18 you can make decisions responsibly, but because the /law/ says you are now responsible for those decisions.  There's nothing wrong with using paradigms from childhood, like caregiving.  Hell, even sex in and of itself is a paradigm from puberty - which is more like 12-14 years old!  We use that too.  It's okay to take things that minors had first and use them as adults.  Yes, we adapt those paradigms to fit our age, our legal responsibility, and our lifestyle, but it doesn't make it "new".  It makes it "altered".  So when we see things like caregiving or sex with minors in TV shows (hey, teenage sitcoms always had sex before 18 years old!) we can relate and empathize with feelings we still have today.  In no way does this condone the involvement of a minor in our community, but it's not arrogantly stating that we built this entire concept on our own.  Which brings me to part two.

     

    2.) I know you think that the DDLG stuff comes from BDSM and sex and that's the root of it all.  I don't think that's true.  But even if it was, people still feel those feelings as teenagers.  People still want to be dominant or submissive in the bedroom at sixteen and some people want to be tied up or tie people up - I know I did!  It's a concept that is legally tied to adulthood because of what I said about laws and responsibility and drawing a line, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in minors.  Again, turning 18 doesn't magically change your psychology.  You're confusing psychology with social convention.  The best example I have of this is a scene in Lie to Me, where Cal asks a twenty year old boy if he finds a picture of a seventeen year old girl attractive.  And he says no, and Cal says "well you're lying, but you should be".  And he goes on to talk about how we will perceive visual stimuli as attractive or unattractive without psychology's intervention - that it's a biological need to reproduce, and arousal sort of just happens.  But it's society that tells us no.  And we say no, even believe "no", when biological responses say something completely different.  And that's /GOOD/.  Because society keeps us in check.  They drew an artificial line for us that says "this is okay, this is not okay", when in reality there are adults into their 20s who can't represent "adult psychology" and children at 15 who can.  But that's not measurable, so we have an artificial line.  And we BELIEVE in that line because IT IS NECESSARY.  It's not a psychology thing: it's just following rules.  (Btw, the Dom/Sub rule-following paradigm is from childhood.)  The point of this paragraph was to say, we as a community shouldn't be saying "DDLG DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH KIDS" because we don't take paradigms from growing up, but because, well, frankly, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KIDS!  Children are not involved.  Minors are not involved.  Can a fifteen year old be a little?  Sure!  I was, ten years ago.  But we will have NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM, because that's the rule.  Not because of psychology, but because we respect the line society drew, because we want to protect minors as much as the next person.  That's the message we should be sending.

     

    3.) Lastly, I think you're wrong about DDLG always being rooted in sexuality.  I think you're absolutely on point that, for some people, the DDLG lifestyle is an extension of BDSM play!  That the whole Dom/Sub fits very well with the CG/L stuff.  It's like dressing my teddy bear as Alice from Alice in Wonderland.  CGL is a great decoration for BDSM.  It can give it more life, more flair, more passion, more purpose, more anything!  And that's great for those people.  But that's not everyone.  My little side is completely removed from sexual stuff.  I still like sex, I like sexual things, I even use little stuff /for/ sex too embarrass me.  But little space?  There's nothing sexual there for me.  My little stuff derives entirely from my longing to act freely and silly, knowing someone will watch over my actions to make sure I stay safe.  I never "obey" or "get punished" in little space.  I play.  I have fun.  I'm actually really bossy! XD  And all I ever want from my CG is to say no when I'm about to do something stupid, and to give me attention when I'm feeling lonely.  I understand I am probably in the minority, but I exist.  And I know others exist like me.  I've felt this way since I was nine years old, and it hasn't changed since hitting puberty, since becoming an adult.  I'm not saying you're wrong, Zen, about DDLG and sexuality - honestly, you're probably more right than I am.  But anything in an absolute vacuum is going to be wrong one way or another.  And honestly, when you talk about how it's all rooted in sexuality and how minors can't be little?  I get really upset.  Because my little side is really the last open, innocent, honest thing about me, and it makes me doubt it.  And that's not fair.

     

    ...I did it again. >_< Sorry for the rant.

     

    Um.

     

    Point: Zen, you're right about this community needing protecting and sheltering because the world is full of idiots.  But sometimes things aren't always black and white, and using misinformation for that defense can be worse than not defending us at all.  And if that doesn't make sense, think about it this way: you pride yourself on the good you're doing for the community, and we love that you are there to be a shield for us littles.  But look at all the people who feel the need to defend ourselves to you?  Obviously we aren't getting the protection we need.  Maybe you could fix that?

     

    Okay.  I am thoroughly exhausted.  Sorry if I offended anybody. ;_;  Honestly and truly, I didn't mean to..

     

    ~Petal like on flowers


    Edited by Petal, 27 September 2016 - 07:53 PM.

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    #20 LoralieHaze

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    Posted 27 September 2016 - 09:41 PM

    I have and when I think back on it, the relationship of Honey and Mori is a wonderful example of what the core of the dynamic between little and caregiver is about, one in which everything sexual has been removed. 

     

    DDLG can involve a sexual/kink or romantic related components but at the heart of it they don't have to be. 

     

    3.) Lastly, I think you're wrong about DDLG always being rooted in sexuality.  I think you're absolutely on point that, for some people, the DDLG lifestyle is an extension of BDSM play!  That the whole Dom/Sub fits very well with the CG/L stuff.  It's like dressing my teddy bear as Alice from Alice in Wonderland.  CGL is a great decoration for BDSM.  It can give it more life, more flair, more passion, more purpose, more anything!  And that's great for those people.  But that's not everyone.  My little side is completely removed from sexual stuff.  I still like sex, I like sexual things, I even use little stuff /for/ sex to embarrass me.  But little space?  There's nothing sexual there for me.  My little stuff derives entirely from my longing to act freely and silly, knowing someone will watch over my actions to make sure I stay safe.  I never "obey" or "get punished" in little space.  I play.  I have fun.  I'm actually really bossy! XD  And all I ever want from my CG is to say no when I'm about to do something stupid, and to give me attention when I'm feeling lonely.  I understand I am probably in the minority, but I exist.  And I know others exist like me.  I've felt this way since I was nine years old, and it hasn't changed since hitting puberty, since becoming an adult.  I'm not saying you're wrong, Zen, about DDLG and sexuality - honestly, you're probably more right than I am.  But anything in an absolute vacuum is going to be wrong one way or another.  And honestly, when you talk about how it's all rooted in sexuality and how minors can't be little?  I get really upset.  Because my little side is really the last open, innocent, honest thing about me, and it makes me doubt it.  And that's not fair.

     

     

    I've been lurking in this thread since it started, not wanting to say anything, but I feel that I must do so now. What I have to say isn't directly related to the topic, but in response to what I quoted above.

     

    DDlg at its core, and especially at its roots, is a type of BDSM. Not an addition, an extension, or especially a decoration(!), but a type that is just as real and valid as the more hardcore types, such a Master/slave. DDlg is inherently sexual, and inherently a Dom/sub (the DS in BDSM) relationship. It is literally in the name DDlg because DDlg stands for "Daddy Dom little girl", the Daddy Dom as the dominant and the little girl as the submissive. Caregiver/little is the same, it's just the gender neutral term that's easier to say or type than "DDlg, DDlb, MDlb, and MDlg" but the name doesn't make it any less of a BDSM dynamic. I want to point out this paragraph as facts because everything else below is just my opinion.

     

    All the stuff Petal is saying about not being sexual while in little space is totally fine and completely valid. When I regress to a particular age range, I'm not sexual either, nor am I anyone's sub. I went into little space at Toys R Us the other day, which happens to me almost every time, and I only wanted attention from my Daddy and to be cuddled and taken care of. (I explained this all to Zen and he understood perfectly.) While I experience times where I do really feel like a child, and therefore don't want to do certain things, that doesn't invalidate the rest of the time where I want to do those certain things and do want to be submissive. I know its common to be innocent and chaste in little space, but this is still just my experience, and I know not every little is also a middle and/or displays those aspects of their personality 24/7 like I do. My experience shapes the way I define things for myself and my relationship, but it's doesn't change the definition for anyone else.

     

    I understand that there are people who have non-sexual DDlg or CGl relationships and I completely respect their decision and their right to have it. Although, this is something that is more rare and as far as I can tell, something that has started happening more recently, as this type of relationship is slowly but surely becoming more mainstream. Not everyone's relationships have to be sexual, and not everyone's relationships have to be non-sexual, but everyone has to at least be aware that DDlg is by nature a sexual Dominant/submissive dynamic, even if that's not how they personally participate in it. Once we all have that awareness, we're more than allowed, welcomed even, to adapt it to fit our own individual needs.


    Edited by LittleKittenLo, 27 September 2016 - 11:03 PM.

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