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Letting My LG Go


ZenDaddy
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Hi All.  This is written on the heels of a very painful transition for me and my Little Girl.  For the past year and a half we've been in a very sweet, and yet hellish rollercoaster of a relationship.  We live separately, and two to three nights a week my LG (in her 40's) would stay with her Daddy, enjoy the life I've created in my home with my two dogs and cat.  We on many levels, quickly became a family, and as of the past number of months were moving towards 24/7.  Our connection and relationship, however, has been marred with numerous episodes revolving around her inability to control her abuse of alcohol, and my having to navigate and play damage control around her dominant and angry outbursts when she's in such a state.  There have been numerous times I have severed the relationship due to these episodes, and have packed her things.. only to wind up taking her back after her begging and committing to things being different.  But the cycle continued... up until recently, when once again I severed the relationship, THIS time in a state of exhaustion from the constant on again off again pattern that has been our history, and the ongoing abuse of alcohol.  

 

It needs to be said that, I have been in the alcohol industry for decades, bartending (as had she in another life) and in the role of a specialist and wine consultant, and have had a couple of vanilla relationships over the years with either women in recovery, or with women in denial of their addiction to alcohol or drugs.. so I'm no stranger to Red Flags.  I saw the flags here as well, but the connection was immediate, and having been in a couple DD/LG relationships, decided to take a chance.  

 

That said, during this period of sadness and transition, she is still insisting on my being her Daddy, and I am content with still caring for her as my LG.  We have met a couple of times and spoke frankly as to what has destroyed the relationship as we knew it, and my adamant refusal to either re-enter the relationship as it was or to hope that things could be different yet another time.  In short, I'm tapped out and it's not fair to her to do this Yo Yo routine with someones heart.  I don't know if we will continue as DD/LG, and there needs to be another serious conversation to identify her boundaries on the matter, and clarify mine as well.  The question is: Have you as a Daddy OR Little Girl found yourself in similar situations?  How did you communicate your wish or desire to remain a Daddy or Little, but not a partner?  What was the outcome, and how easy or difficult was the transition for you?  

 

I am a very grounded male and individual, and believe much will depend on what her boundaries are.  As for mine, I know I cannot re-enter the relationship as it was.  What that means overall remains to be seen. 

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much respect to you, but i would be concerned that she will use that small gap in the wall you are putting up to push your boundaries

 

i understand alcohol like any other addiction starts as a choice but quickly spirals into an illness but if you think about where she is in her life, is it fair for either of you to be clinging on?

 

you desserve better man, she needs a wakeup call that the sauce is ruining her life

Edited by SmolAetherr
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If it's not meant to be then let it be. She has proven time and time again that the addiction won't stop. My ex had (still does as far as I know) the same issue with drugs. I introduced him to Ddlg and we had that in our marriage. Me keeping a connection with him would enable his drug problem and torture me further. I guess I can't be mean enough to give an ultimatum that I'll leave if he won't stop. He ended up leaving me. And that's that as much as it sucks. I do admire you for making a stand for yourself because you do deserve to have your boundaries/limits respected.

 

It's real sad when a relationship like what I had and what you described just cannot keep going with the "immediate connection" because of substance abuse. This is serious. I'm sorry but the answer to your question to keep the Ddlg dynamic but not as partners I don't think will work. Given that you have tried to make things work, limits get pushed over, the relationship ends, and then repeat. There's a pattern here. Expectations are not being met. Is keeping a relationship fair to both of you? It's up to her to clean up her life, get professional help for the alcohol abuse, and show it with actions not words.

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Your’s is a sad but not uncommon story.  My ex-wife was bipolar and abused alcohol, prescription meds, and illegal drugs. I tried to get her help for years but she refused to change her behavior.  After about 10 years of dealing with her behavior, Multiple rehabs, I finally divorced her and got custody of my four children. She had it all and lost it all. She ended up passing away several years ago at age 47.

 

On a more positive note, about ten years ago,  of my boys became addicted to opiates. He was doing massive amounts of Percocets as well as fentanyl. I enabled him for a year then pulled him out of college and told him he had to go to rehab or he was out of our lives. He went to rehab, did outpatient therapy, lived in a recovery house, worked part time then was hired by the rehab where he went, finished this degree, And is now a SVP of a very large behavioral health company.  He has a fantastic life and has been sober for ten years.  
 

People can beat addiction, but it is very hard and it’s almost impossible without getting help and having a good aftercare program.  One thing I will always remember him saying, is that “you have no control over an addict”. People need to want to get better and if they don’t, you really can’t help them. 
 

Edited by Cebakes
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Please forgive me if I have read wrong, but the fact that you work with in the alcohol industry may be a trigger for her and would not help in the event that she wanted to turn her life around. If you do decide to give things another try or just stay in the DDlg aspect of your relationship/ involvement, you should consider your standpoint in regards to alcohol in order to help. Can you give up your career. For an alcoholic to have a chance, it needs to be an alcohol environment free life, especially in the beginning of detox. Your promotion of alcohol for work may unconsciously send the wrong signals and open opportunities for the boundaries to be pushed or for the abuse of alcohol to be accepted as you yourself work with it.

 

I hope this helps you, I wish you well.

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Addict starts to heal only when they truly want that. You have no control over it, nor can you even affect it. What you can do is enable their behaviour, unfortunately. What staying in ddlg rel quite easily may mean as you are still giving company, attention and so far for them, even if they keep staying as addicts.

 

Can addicts get sober? Yes. But I doubt it is easy nor straight forward.

 

Should you put yourself into the position where you keep yourself in the loop with the addict? Probably not but up to you. Personally I would remove myself from the pattern ( easier said than done of course! ) as it is easily unhealthy for you and for them too. This should give the addict clear signal that their behaviour is not ok. Will that change anything? Maybe, maybe not but at least there is attempt and it can help them to realise what they are doing -at least something is clearly stating that there is an issue.

 

I also would recommend that at least don't continue ddlg rel, just be friends or so. Ddlg can only be particed with two consenting adults, and addict is not really fully there if you ask me... But also ddlg will easily make things smushy and blurry, and it will be harder for you on some occations to have proper boundaries -especially if you have already had that "yo yo" behaviour. There will always be temptation or desire for more than "just ddlg rel" at least from one side, so it will be really hard that way.

 

 

Edit: that on-off relationship + alcoholism breaks relationships. Doesn't matter if it is vanilla, ddlg or even just friendship. So, in that way I find it hard to understand why you two would continue ddlg-rel anymore. Or I can understand it in the sense that it is extremely hard to let go of someone you care for, so there is the negotiation phase where both try to hang into every little thing there is.

Edited by baby_k
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Several factors go into Addicts:

 

Can you tolerate it(be honest with yourself)! I have been in a long term relationship with one and unless you are also the same type of addict it's rather boring as hell...

 

1. They spend their entire time thinking about it if they're not getting it.

2. They spend their entire time thinking about if they're not on it.

3. All they want is to be on it, not you or anything else. 

4. They'll break way too many rules to get it.

5. In the end they probably wouldn't be with you Sober anyway so their love is likely more you're being enabling than you.

6. Drug Addicts are boring. All they do is chase after drugs of any kind.

 

Lastly, some of the most wonderful poisoned people in the world I know were Alcoholics and Drug Addicts. Yet, they ruined most of their relationships and did god awful things in the name of their pursuit of the "high." Most self degraded themselves so much to the point they never forgave themselves or ended up really destroyed.

 

 

Hi All.  This is written on the heels of a very painful transition for me and my Little Girl.  For the past year and a half we've been in a very sweet, and yet hellish rollercoaster of a relationship.  We live separately, and two to three nights a week my LG (in her 40's) would stay with her Daddy, enjoy the life I've created in my home with my two dogs and cat.  We on many levels, quickly became a family, and as of the past number of months were moving towards 24/7.  Our connection and relationship, however, has been marred with numerous episodes revolving around her inability to control her abuse of alcohol, and my having to navigate and play damage control around her dominant and angry outbursts when she's in such a state.  There have been numerous times I have severed the relationship due to these episodes, and have packed her things.. only to wind up taking her back after her begging and committing to things being different.  But the cycle continued... up until recently, when once again I severed the relationship, THIS time in a state of exhaustion from the constant on again off again pattern that has been our history, and the ongoing abuse of alcohol.  

 

It needs to be said that, I have been in the alcohol industry for decades, bartending (as had she in another life) and in the role of a specialist and wine consultant, and have had a couple of vanilla relationships over the years with either women in recovery, or with women in denial of their addiction to alcohol or drugs.. so I'm no stranger to Red Flags.  I saw the flags here as well, but the connection was immediate, and having been in a couple DD/LG relationships, decided to take a chance.  

 

That said, during this period of sadness and transition, she is still insisting on my being her Daddy, and I am content with still caring for her as my LG.  We have met a couple of times and spoke frankly as to what has destroyed the relationship as we knew it, and my adamant refusal to either re-enter the relationship as it was or to hope that things could be different yet another time.  In short, I'm tapped out and it's not fair to her to do this Yo Yo routine with someones heart.  I don't know if we will continue as DD/LG, and there needs to be another serious conversation to identify her boundaries on the matter, and clarify mine as well.  The question is: Have you as a Daddy OR Little Girl found yourself in similar situations?  How did you communicate your wish or desire to remain a Daddy or Little, but not a partner?  What was the outcome, and how easy or difficult was the transition for you?  

 

I am a very grounded male and individual, and believe much will depend on what her boundaries are.  As for mine, I know I cannot re-enter the relationship as it was.  What that means overall remains to be seen. 

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Wow, I wish I knew how to respond to each of you individually on this matter, as ALL of you have brought so much to the table.  The level and degree of thoughtful and deep insight has been brilliant, and on so many points I couldn't have said it better.  I am thrilled to be a part of this forum, and to have met those of you that have shared your thoughts, and your own stories... and we all have them, ay?!   Thank you for taking the time to reach out, and for what it's worth I am prepared to look to another LG, in time anyway.  My life is full and quite frankly free of chaos outside of this.  Regardless, I hope she finds the help she needs and deserves.. and should she choose not to, we all stand or fall by our own choices.  In spite of my  feelings for my Little Girl, I am no stranger to 'Letting Go'.  Health and happiness to you that have shared.  Thank you!!!

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Coming from a former addict, seeing the advice on this topic has made me incredibly happy. /gen
Too often I have seen people treated with *kid gloves* because they are struggling, and it hasn't helped anyone in the long run. Boundaries get pushed, excuses get made, it just becomes a cycle that isn't helpful.

The unfortunate part about battling any addiction is that often there are many layers underneath that help to fuel the addiction, or just keep it smoldering under the surface. If those core issues aren't being dealt with properly and over an extended period of time (ex: ongoing therapy vs just an appointment or two - as Cebakes said, a good aftercare program) then it's basically like you are putting a band-aid on a dirty wound, instead of cleaning it out and caring for it properly and making sure it has the best chances of healing. The addict has to be able to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel, they have to want to change and see a different future for themselves...and unfortunately we can't make people get to this spot no matter how badly we want them to be there. In those situations, while it's hard, we often have to remove ourselves completely or risk getting dragged down as well.

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If it's not meant to be then let it be. She has proven time and time again that the addiction won't stop. My ex had (still does as far as I know) the same issue with drugs. I introduced him to Ddlg and we had that in our marriage. Me keeping a connection with him would enable his drug problem and torture me further. I guess I can't be mean enough to give an ultimatum that I'll leave if he won't stop. He ended up leaving me. And that's that as much as it sucks. I do admire you for making a stand for yourself because you do deserve to have your boundaries/limits respected.

 

It's real sad when a relationship like what I had and what you described just cannot keep going with the "immediate connection" because of substance abuse. This is serious. I'm sorry but the answer to your question to keep the Ddlg dynamic but not as partners I don't think will work. Given that you have tried to make things work, limits get pushed over, the relationship ends, and then repeat. There's a pattern here. Expectations are not being met. Is keeping a relationship fair to both of you? It's up to her to clean up her life, get professional help for the alcohol abuse, and show it with actions not words.

 

exatly and she needs to do it in her own time and for herself

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                    ***** TRIGGER WARNING AS THIS POST DISCUSSES ABUSE*****

 

Hello Zen Daddy,  For what it is worth based on the information you provided I am going to call this as I see it...Narcissistic Abuse. Plain and Simple.

I am going to be bold here as I feel it is necessary. Some brief background to explain my understanding. I just recently ended a 10 year relationship. A hamster wheel repeated cycle of emotional and physiological hell. As a long time submissive and recently little/middle, it destroyed me. I questioned everything, my sanity, my submission, my ability to love, was I to blame? and ultimately it has greatly affected my health.  I am now in recovery mode. Mind you, my "discovery" was only very recently.I knew there were problems for years but I simply chalked it up to a shi**y relationship. Never could I have dreamed what I found out when I finally hit my breaking point and I was at rock bottom emotionally and physically. I had been drained of everything.

 

I advise you this kind man, If you have the ability to leave the relationship, go NO CONTACT and no matter how hard it is, stick to it! This cycle is not just an addiction for her but one for you as well as the victim of her supply. If you are unable to for whatever reason, go EXTREME BOUNDARIES and LIMITED CONTACT. You have to care for you now as if you do not, how can you in all honesty give your best to another?

 

If you wish to speak further, please add me.I am only new to this experience and I cant offer much but a listening ear and links to information. Perhaps shared support as a healthy support system is crucial during these initial phases. I promise you this is not a pick up line. I am a long way out before I will allow myself to enter into any other intimate relationship with someone until I know I am ready. It's not up to another to fix what was done to me, that my job :)

Good luck with your endeavors. I do not wish this kind of abuse on anyone. Until it is seen for what it is though, the hamster wheel cycle of hell will only repeat. Please, never delude yourself that the narcissist will change anything for very long and you are only a means of supply to them.

 

Respectfully,

tangible~

Edited by tangible~ soul
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Thank you MsWiggles, spot on.  And Tangible, your advice is sound.  The truth with this as with any cycle is, as with the definition of insanity.. whatever has been done in the past CLEARLY has not worked.  If even a friendship is to continue, there must be firm boundaries on my part as well as the encouragement of her seeking help for no other reason than to create a healthier 'self'. But first and foremost, GET OFF THE HAMSTER WHEEL.  It must stop now.  So often we say to ourselves "I should have done this or that back whenever", but beating ourselves up over what is done and past accomplishes nothing.  To learn from our past is invaluable, but to begin another cycle of regrets and 'I should haves' only places us on another hamster wheel of our own doing.  These are days of moving forward and of insight... and as I may have indicated on a previous post, I have created an incredible life for myself, and have more endeavors than I have time, lol.  I am enjoying focusing on my world, and am grateful to be out of harms way with the fires here in NM.  

 

As before, a massive tip of the hat to you all for your extremely insightful comments and taking the time to respond to this Newbie.  This is proving to be a Brilliant group, and I'm proud to be a part of it.   Cheers!

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