Forgiveness

[Warmandfuzzy]

Hello to all who are a part of this wonderful community!

I wanted to make a topic on forgiveness. On my journey through this site and talking to others, it has come to my attention that many have experienced difficult life  circumstances. A lot of members, especially those who are little, discuss having faced abuse in some form during childhood. Others have had to face abuse in romantic relationships or in a DD/lg dynamic. Regardless of the situation, many of us are in a personal journey of coming to grips with what has happened and trying to find healing.

One question that I want to pose is this: Should the person who has been abused forgive their abuser?

Greater minds than me have grappled with this question. One book on the subject is called "The Sunflower" and describes a scenario of a concentration camp survivor in WW2 who is approached by a German soldier. The soldier asks the survivor (a Jewish person) if they would forgive him (the soldier) for burning down a building and murdering a group of Jews. The survivor ultimately states they do not believe they can offer forgiveness to the soldier as the soldier did not personally wrong them, but burned down the building killing others. The survivor declines to offer forgiveness to the soldier and states it is not their right to forgive the soldier for what the soldier did to others. The survivor states they cannot speak for the dead.  But upon reflection, the survivor wonders if they did the right thing. The survivor/author then ends with posing the question of forgiveness to others. The book is insightful as others in history have attempted to answer the question and their thoughts are included in the book. People such as the Dali Lama, Dith Pran and other historical figures give answers to the question. This book and scenario is different than the question I pose, as I am asking if we should forgive others for what has happened to us personally. But this book is definitely worth a read to gain insight into how others view forgiveness. 

For me in my personal life, in my childhood I have faced adversity, cruelty and abuse. And along my healing journey I have felt different about forgiveness at different times. Forgiveness is much like grief I have found, with different stages that I have gone through. I have gone through a range of rage, depression, indifference, and finally forgiveness. Speaking only for myself, I have found that ultimately the person I want to be is to be stronger and better then those who mistreated and abused me. I find freedom when I let go of my rage, my shame and feelings of unworthiness and begin to embrace love, forgiveness and compassion. I don't want the abusers to have any control over me since they took so much from me. When I share their emotions of anger and hate, I feel that they are poisoning me. So I relinquish all the negative things that have to do with them. To me, this means I have to forgive so I can move past it. I have not gotten to 100% forgiveness and don't know if I will ever reach that. But, I have reached the point I rarely think about my abusers and I no longer feel the negative feelings. In fact, I wish positive things upon all of those who have done me wrong, they no longer suck up my energy, thoughts and time. In this way I can move into a brighter future for myself! 

What about you?

[kryssi01]

I struggle with forgiveness. 

Do I forgive the person that SA me as a child. No. But I forgave my parents and family who didn't help me feel supported when I disclosed. I struggled with forgiving myself for years.

I don't forgive the man who SA at 18. I finally forgive myself. 

I don't forgive myself or my husband for currently living in a DV relationship. 

[MissAnna]

Forgiveness:

Can an abuser be truly forgiven? 

That's a hard question, many will tell you no and some will say yes, both answers are not wrong. Forgiveness takes time, it is one of the hardest things to overcome in life. As children we are so vulnerable and so innocent, we lean on the people who are raising us to protect us, but sometimes they don't protect us but damage us.

So many of us on here have been SA, abused, manipulated, hurt; we were raised in nothing but what nightmares are made of, we never knew what it meant to know love as a child. 

There are so many in therapy because of the trauma, because they want to be able to breathe again without living in terror all the time. How horrible is it that we have no idea what a normal child is? We watch Disney movies and listen to fairytales because we want to pretend just for one day that we lived that life, that we didn't live the horror's that we did. 

So do I think abusers should be forgiven? I honestly can't answer that, because I am have yet to fully forgive mine, so how can I tell you one thing when I am caught in the middle of fighting my battles? I would be lying, I never want to lie to anyone, is it possible? Yes, yes it is. DO I want to forgive my abusers, so badly so I can be free, to be able to walk out without flinching when someone walks up beside me, I would love to be able to sleep without every light in my house on. So yes, I would love to be free from my nightmares, and I know it takes time, healing takes time, we went through battles, we have scars, some have deeper scars then others. But that just shows how amazing we truly are, we survived and overcame a situation that didn't take us under, how amazing is that?

So, to honestly answer your question is I don't know? At this moment in my life I don't know the answer to your question,  all I know is that I am a survivor, we are all survivors. I am so proud of each and every one of us for moving forward and not allowing our abusers to have the satisfaction of keeping us from feeling the sun.

Until we meet again remember you matter, you are loved and you are worthy of being loved 

[Warmandfuzzy]

9 hours ago, kryssi01 said:

I struggle with forgiveness. 

Do I forgive the person that SA me as a child. No. But I forgave my parents and family who didn't help me feel supported when I disclosed. I struggled with forgiving myself for years.

I don't forgive the man who SA at 18. I finally forgive myself. 

I don't forgive myself or my husband for currently living in a DV relationship. 

Hey Kryssi,

Thank you for your response. In my opinion, there are some things in this world that are heinous and are questionable if they should be forgiven. Child abuse and SA are two items on that list for me. I am very sorry to hear that you did not feel supported when you disclosed. I am glad to hear you say you have forgiven yourself as from my experience it is such a struggle and burden to have unresolved feelings within ourselves such as guilt/shame/blame. It was very courageous of you to respond and my hope is you continue to be loving and kind with yourself regarding all that has happened to you. I also hope you are safe in your current living situation and if not that you are able to remove yourself to a safer situation. 

[Baby Manda]

Forgiveness is so involved and such a big question.  Personally as I forgive one thing or person, I feel that 10 more are revealed. I believe that forgiveness is both a choice and an action,  but does take a deep change of heart to really have a lasting impact.

Can I forgive? Absolutely!

Do I want to forgive? ....hmmmm maybe not yet.

Do I need to forgive so I can move on in my life? Yes. 

There's also a difference,  big difference between forgiveness and trust. I can forgive someone for how they hurt me, but I also don't trust them the same way again. These are separate emotions and do not carry the same weight when dealing with people in your life. Sadly trauma and abuse twist our thinking and make it difficult to separate emotions. Oftentimes when I am told I need to forgive someone I feel fear because I don't want that person back in my life. The beauty of forgiveness is that my abusers never need to know! Forgiveness is about my healing, my recovery, my heart. It has nothing to do with them being back in my life. It has everything to do with me being free of the burden of pain, sorrow, anguish, torment,  guilt, shame,  anger, and nightmares.  It's about my freedom from my abusers.  

The hardest person to forgive is myself, for not doing this sooner...

[Warmandfuzzy]

9 hours ago, MissAnna said:

Forgiveness:

Can an abuser be truly forgiven? 

That's a hard question, many will tell you no and some will say yes, both answers are not wrong. Forgiveness takes time, it is one of the hardest things to overcome in life. As children we are so vulnerable and so innocent, we lean on the people who are raising us to protect us, but sometimes they don't protect us but damage us.

So many of us on here have been SA, abused, manipulated, hurt; we were raised in nothing but what nightmares are made of, we never knew what it meant to know love as a child. 

There are so many in therapy because of the trauma, because they want to be able to breathe again without living in terror all the time. How horrible is it that we have no idea what a normal child is? We watch Disney movies and listen to fairytales because we want to pretend just for one day that we lived that life, that we didn't live the horror's that we did. 

So do I think abusers should be forgiven? I honestly can't answer that, because I am have yet to fully forgive mine, so how can I tell you one thing when I am caught in the middle of fighting my battles? I would be lying, I never want to lie to anyone, is it possible? Yes, yes it is. DO I want to forgive my abusers, so badly so I can be free, to be able to walk out without flinching when someone walks up beside me, I would love to be able to sleep without every light in my house on. So yes, I would love to be free from my nightmares, and I know it takes time, healing takes time, we went through battles, we have scars, some have deeper scars then others. But that just shows how amazing we truly are, we survived and overcame a situation that didn't take us under, how amazing is that?

So, to honestly answer your question is I don't know? At this moment in my life I don't know the answer to your question,  all I know is that I am a survivor, we are all survivors. I am so proud of each and every one of us for moving forward and not allowing our abusers to have the satisfaction of keeping us from feeling the sun.

Until we meet again remember you matter, you are loved and you are worthy of being loved 

Miss Anna, 

I always appreciate and am grateful when you contribute as you have wisdom and compassion. It is true that there is an imbalance of power when we are children, an imbalance that we did not ask for but were thrust into when we were born and throughout childhood. It is one of the great tragedies of life that children who are so innocent and loving can be exposed to the worst of humanity. Stopping to think about the true magnitude of such things can be very overwhelming and raw. It can be easier to pretend it doesn't exist. But many in this forum and around the world bear the scars, nightmares and lost childhoods that you speak of. 

You pose an important question, a thought provoking question that I think bears repeating. "Do I want to forgive my abusers?" This is an important thing to consider as it is distinctly different from should a survivor forgive their abuser? The question I posed is more of an ethical/moral dilemma of SHOULD. You pose the very personal question that all survivors have to answer for themselves, which is "Do I want to forgive."

I will share that I have been through 3 years of talk therapy and 2 years of EMDR. I have found the EMDR especially helped as it rewires the brain and allows traumatic "stuck" memories to be processed. This provides an opportunity to create new neural networks that are more positive leaning. But the scars are still there. Every day I look in the mirror I still see my child self looking back at me. I am not and don't think I will ever be 100% free. Most abuse and trauma is intergenerational, passed down from one person to the next. I have been able to release a lot of that poison and recognize that just because the last four generations before all did things in an abusive way, doesn't mean that I have to. 

And I see that shinning brightly in you as well. You are on this forum being a light for others and sharing what you can when people need it. The simple fact that you can do that even though you flinch when people walk near you and you sleep with the lights on is a true testament to you as a survivor! You are strong, courageous and embody hope. As you stated we are "amazing...and overcame." Things we need more of in this world. 

It is okay to not know if you can or should forgive the abusers who have harmed you. This life is a journey best taken one day, one breath and one step at a time. While reading the forums I have always been heartened by your posts and have been happy to see the connection between you and Soul. I wish you Miss Anna and all the wonderful people on this site all the happiness, love and peace that we each deserve!

Writing this response takes me back to when I attended a rally for survivors of the Darfur genocide. One brave young man stood up on the stage and told over a thousand people of the horrors he had faced and that he was unsure if he would ever see his family again as he didn't even know if they were alive. After he exited the stage, I just instinctively stood in front of him and we both hugged and shed tears together. No matter what happens, we have the ability to share love and kindness in this world. As Viktor Frankl, a holocaust survivor once said: "Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."And that is why I have much respect for you, Miss Anna, because you choose to be kind and loving and helping others. And I am confident that you will choose the right answer for you in regards to forgiveness of those who harmed you. 

May all survivors find peace, joy, love and support on their journey 🙂

[Warmandfuzzy]

3 minutes ago, Baby Manda said:

Forgiveness is so involved and such a big question.  Personally as I forgive one thing or person, I feel that 10 more are revealed. I believe that forgiveness is both a choice and an action,  but does take a deep change of heart to really have a lasting impact.

Can I forgive? Absolutely!

Do I want to forgive? ....hmmmm maybe not yet.

Do I need to forgive so I can move on in my life? Yes. 

There's also a difference,  big difference between forgiveness and trust. I can forgive someone for how they hurt me, but I also don't trust them the same way again. These are separate emotions and do not carry the same weight when dealing with people in your life. Sadly trauma and abuse twist our thinking and make it difficult to separate emotions. Oftentimes when I am told I need to forgive someone I feel fear because I don't want that person back in my life. The beauty of forgiveness is that my abusers never need to know! Forgiveness is about my healing, my recovery, my heart. It has nothing to do with them being back in my life. It has everything to do with me being free of the burden of pain, sorrow, anguish, torment,  guilt, shame,  anger, and nightmares.  It's about my freedom from my abusers.  

The hardest person to forgive is myself, for not doing this sooner...

 Baby Manda that is a beautiful response and I can tell it has been a journey for you to get to the place you are at. You make very important points that it is a choice, action and change of heart. I am sure that some people do all three and some may choose to only do one. And I agree with you about trust. Once certain boundaries are crossed, I do not consider that a person should be trusted again. I am so happy and grateful to hear that are finding freedom. I know it is hard to look back on what we have done in life and wish we had done things differently. But if you had done things sooner and chosen a different path, you would have wound up at a place you are not at today. I hope you can find love and kindness for yourself. They say the person we are the harshest to is ourselves. As survivors, I think we deserve to be gentle with ourselves 

[MissAnna]

1 hour ago, Warmandfuzzy said:

Miss Anna, 

I always appreciate and am grateful when you contribute as you have wisdom and compassion. It is true that there is an imbalance of power when we are children, an imbalance that we did not ask for but were thrust into when we were born and throughout childhood. It is one of the great tragedies of life that children who are so innocent and loving can be exposed to the worst of humanity. Stopping to think about the true magnitude of such things can be very overwhelming and raw. It can be easier to pretend it doesn't exist. But many in this forum and around the world bear the scars, nightmares and lost childhoods that you speak of. 

You pose an important question, a thought provoking question that I think bears repeating. "Do I want to forgive my abusers?" This is an important thing to consider as it is distinctly different from should a survivor forgive their abuser? The question I posed is more of an ethical/moral dilemma of SHOULD. You pose the very personal question that all survivors have to answer for themselves, which is "Do I want to forgive."

I will share that I have been through 3 years of talk therapy and 2 years of EMDR. I have found the EMDR especially helped as it rewires the brain and allows traumatic "stuck" memories to be processed. This provides an opportunity to create new neural networks that are more positive leaning. But the scars are still there. Every day I look in the mirror I still see my child self looking back at me. I am not and don't think I will ever be 100% free. Most abuse and trauma is intergenerational, passed down from one person to the next. I have been able to release a lot of that poison and recognize that just because the last four generations before all did things in an abusive way, doesn't mean that I have to. 

And I see that shinning brightly in you as well. You are on this forum being a light for others and sharing what you can when people need it. The simple fact that you can do that even though you flinch when people walk near you and you sleep with the lights on is a true testament to you as a survivor! You are strong, courageous and embody hope. As you stated we are "amazing...and overcame." Things we need more of in this world. 

It is okay to not know if you can or should forgive the abusers who have harmed you. This life is a journey best taken one day, one breath and one step at a time. While reading the forums I have always been heartened by your posts and have been happy to see the connection between you and Soul. I wish you Miss Anna and all the wonderful people on this site all the happiness, love and peace that we each deserve!

Writing this response takes me back to when I attended a rally for survivors of the Darfur genocide. One brave young man stood up on the stage and told over a thousand people of the horrors he had faced and that he was unsure if he would ever see his family again as he didn't even know if they were alive. After he exited the stage, I just instinctively stood in front of him and we both hugged and shed tears together. No matter what happens, we have the ability to share love and kindness in this world. As Viktor Frankl, a holocaust survivor once said: "Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms-to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."And that is why I have much respect for you, Miss Anna, because you choose to be kind and loving and helping others. And I am confident that you will choose the right answer for you in regards to forgiveness of those who harmed you. 

May all survivors find peace, joy, love and support on their journey 🙂

Thank you, your words have touched my heart. 

I have always had the attitude I want everyone to know they matter, they are loved and they are worthy of love.

So many of us on here have never had one person say those words to them. It is my goal to prove the world wrong, for we all matter, we all are loved and we are worthy of being loved 

Thank you again for your kindness and for your generosity 

Anna 

[Baby Manda]

2 hours ago, Warmandfuzzy said:

 Baby Manda that is a beautiful response and I can tell it has been a journey for you to get to the place you are at. You make very important points that it is a choice, action and change of heart. I am sure that some people do all three and some may choose to only do one. And I agree with you about trust. Once certain boundaries are crossed, I do not consider that a person should be trusted again. I am so happy and grateful to hear that are finding freedom. I know it is hard to look back on what we have done in life and wish we had done things differently. But if you had done things sooner and chosen a different path, you would have wound up at a place you are not at today. I hope you can find love and kindness for yourself. They say the person we are the harshest to is ourselves. As survivors, I think we deserve to be gentle with ourselves 

Thank you for your kind words. Being kind, and loving to myself is definitely the challenge.  It's much easier to see the goodness in others and only the pain in oneself. 

When I was in the shelter once, they taught me there are 3 stages of healing. They aren't fixed stages, but fluid stages that blend together. We move through these stages during different times of stress in our lives as people who experienced significant trauma.  Forgiveness helps us process through these more easily.  

1. Victim - actively being hurt or the mindset that we are or are going to be hurt

2. Survivor - I am safe, but only for a moment... everyone, everything is a possible threat... I can't trust anyone, not really..I act like I'm ok, but I'm not really ok inside.... slowly over time more and more safety is gained in this phase

3. Thriving - I am living my life... for me again (or for the first time) I may slip back, but overall I can process my problems with my support team (including professionals) ... I can love and be loved, I can celebrate with others and be present in my emotions. Life's not perfect because no one's life is, but I'm actually living without fear and anger.  

It takes forgiveness to make it to the thriving phase and that's always my goal...

[Warmandfuzzy]

@Baby Manda That is very insightful! Thank you for sharing. I can definitely relate to the 3 stages of healing. Speaking for myself, I can see that the "thriving" stage is really when I accept myself and allow myself to take care of me. For a long time I felt like I was part of the blame for things that happened. In psychology, they talk about being "egocentric" as a child and thinking that everything that happens is because of you. For me, It has been breaking down all those painful barriers in my mind and accepting what others did who were supposed to care for me. Feeling all the raw emotion and getting back into my body and being present. That has taken a long time for me. But it has allowed me to feel deeply, love more deeply and reclaim who I am. And in all that I have found a change of heart and been able to let go of a lot of what happened to me. 

I greatly appreciate your contribution to this discussion, you have said very wise things!!!! Forgiveness is an action and a choice and a change of heart. It is so so important to have support from others who care. That is part of what makes this community great!

[Baby Manda]

25 minutes ago, Warmandfuzzy said:

@Baby Manda That is very insightful! Thank you for sharing. I can definitely relate to the 3 stages of healing. Speaking for myself, I can see that the "thriving" stage is really when I accept myself and allow myself to take care of me. For a long time I felt like I was part of the blame for things that happened. In psychology, they talk about being "egocentric" as a child and thinking that everything that happens is because of you. For me, It has been breaking down all those painful barriers in my mind and accepting what others did who were supposed to care for me. Feeling all the raw emotion and getting back into my body and being present. That has taken a long time for me. But it has allowed me to feel deeply, love more deeply and reclaim who I am. And in all that I have found a change of heart and been able to let go of a lot of what happened to me. 

I greatly appreciate your contribution to this discussion, you have said very wise things!!!! Forgiveness is an action and a choice and a change of heart. It is so so important to have support from others who care. That is part of what makes this community great!

The connection between mind and body is really powerful.  I've had a broken foot for over 5 months and knee problems for 2 months before that that have thrown me through an emotional whirlwind! Usually I do mindful stretching or trauma informed yoga moves that are very gentle to keep my mind and body focused, aware and sensitive,  but my body hasn't worked right for so long and my emotions are all tangled up! Trauma really is a multifaceted system that effects our minds, bodies, hearts and souls... the very essence of who we are is all wrapped up in this big ball of messiness. I'm good as long as everything stays the same, but since we experienced trauma, I don't like consistency or structure... the more trauma I experience,  the scarier routine is for me. I fall apart when I'm unable to adapt, so things like yoga help me connect to my body to understand the message "I am safe here" which calms everything.  

Sometimes I have too much information... I can help others, but I don't know how to use it for myself... how to heal myself when surrounded by constant triggers and spirals of fear... how do I start to let it go and forgive me... others really don't know and their ignorance is their excuse...but me... is my pain my shield? What prevents me from forgiving myself? Will this cycle ever be finished? Am I truly that deeply wounded that I cannot move beyond this pain? Am I destined to be broken forever even if I find peace?

That's the crippling pain to deep trauma... never trusting yourself...